Who Really Cares About Labels?
Those of you following the blog on Twitter may have noticed some comments over the past few weeks about the ‘Gold Star Lesbian’.
She was commenting on a post by the same name – a post written by the Rock Chick about the different labels which exist in the Gay Community.
I’ve always taken the same approach with blog trolls on 30 Dates – no matter how vile their comments, I tend to post the comment, and let people respond to whatever ridiculous claims or suggestions the commentator is making.
People can write strange things when they’re hidden behind the mask of a computer screen, and often when you reply directly, as a normal human being, it diffuses the situation and reminds them they are talking to a real person. This approach has worked with almost every troll we’ve ever had visit the 30 Dates Blog. Not so much the Gold Star Lesbian unfortunately.
Interestingly, the post by the Rock Chick was simply pointing out that labels exist within the gay community which don’t in the same way amongst straight daters. It was an informative piece, which as someone who had never even heard the phrase ‘Gold Star Lesbian’ before, I found really interesting. To be honest, it’s odd to think that a social group so keen not to be pigeon-holed or stereotyped is so quick to label those within their group. A phenomenon which Rock Chick explored and discussed in her article. In the same article she happened to comment on her own sexuality, and the way that she has always seen it as a matter of falling in love with the person, regardless of their gender.
It’s a stance I’ve heard a number of gay and bi-sexual people taking. Attraction isn’t simply about someone’s gender, it’s about the person inside.
If you haven’t yet read Rock Chick’s piece, it’s a really interesting read. She talks about the way there seem to be ‘grades’ of lesbian, and a rising movement of anti-bisexuality in the lesbian community. As an outsider, I found it really interesting to read at the time, but what’s more interesting are the frankly militant responses from the ‘Gold Star Lesbian’ to the post – which simply serve to prove everything which Rock Chick was saying about anti-bisexual tendencies, and taking labels too far.
As I read through the continuous stream of rubbish which the Gold Star Lesbian was intent on posting on this blog, I couldn’t help but be reminded of something far more sinister. As she talked about ‘purity’, ‘fake lesbians’ and ‘erasing the true meaning of the word lesbian’ she reminded me eerily of Hitler – ironically someone who would have probably had the Gold Star Lesbian killed for her sexual preference.
You would think, being a part of a minority group would make people more liberal and open-minded, but as the Gold Star lesbian proves in her tirade of small-minded comments, there are nasty bigots everywhere – of all genders, races and sexual preferences.
In the end, Rock Chick, The New Realist and I stopped replying, because every time someone replied back with a sensible response, the Gold Star Lesbian would launch another form of crazy ammunition at us – suggesting bi-sexual tendencies will be used by groups to convince people that being lesbian can be cured, and even suggesting it could lead to justified rape.
Frankly, the conversation just got ridiculous.
But it did prove a point. Unfortunately there are nasty people everywhere, with rigid unrealistic views. It’s easy to assume, in a world where Christian extremist groups oppose gay marriage, that only straight, religious people are narrow-minded, but anyone can be narrow minded.
I’ve always been of the opinion that if something doesn’t affect you directly, and doesn’t harm anyone else, then really you shouldn’t intervene, or have a powerful opinion. Yes, I agree with gay marriage, but even if I didn’t it would be none of my bloody business, because it’s not harming anyone, and it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. If someone can self-define as a woman, despite still having male genitalia, why shouldn’t someone call herself a lesbian, despite having had experiences with men? Surely it’s up to the individual to call him or herself whatever they want?
The Gold Star Lesbian has no right how to tell another lesbian how to self-define her sexuality, and no, it doesn’t make you any more special if you’ve never slept with a man, or slept with thousands of men and then decide you’re gay. It’s unfortunate that ‘Gold Star’ is such a positive sounding phrase – because the GSL made it sound anything but positive. Just because she’s never slept with a man doesn’t make her any better or worse a lesbian than the Rock Chick, or any other human being! We all have our own lives to live – let people be!
One point she made did make me chuckle – the Gold Star Lesbian called us all ‘fake lesbians’ – a phrase I’m sure both the New Realist and I will now be using for years. I found it particularly funny because I’m an appalling fake lesbian – all I do is talk about men! 🙂
But all jokes aside, since when did we award ‘prizes’ or titles for sexuality. I’m a straight woman, and just because I kissed female friends in the past (for drinks when we were teenagers … yes, coz it was cool! cringe!) doesn’t make me any less straight. I’m attracted to men, and so that’s how I choose to define my sexuality – on my feelings rather than on actions. I’ve never had sex with a woman – does that make me a Gold Star Straight Person – and how does that make me any more important or virtuous than someone who is now straight but had lesbian affairs when they were younger?
Isn’t it interesting how in the past we judged people on how many people they had slept with … now some people are only interested in what gender those people were, and what label you choose to place on yourself!
Live and Let Live people. You only get one life after all! Gold Star, or Wooden Spoon!
Miss Twenty-Nine xxx
I’ve read comments like those from the GSL before particularly in the “adult” dating community – it’s a sad reality, that even among the most crapped-on minorities, there will be people who think it’s OK to crap on others. But I also find these comments absolutely astonishing, because it seems I’ve spent the better part of my life, having to argue with people about my own lack of bisexuality.
There’s a question, on OKCupid, which asks “Have you ever had a sexual encounter with someone of the same sex?” It’s amazing how many heterosexual, monogamous men, have marked “No, and I would never.” as an unacceptable answer in a match. Apparently these men are so keen to have a FMF threesome at some point, that they don’t even want to date women, who aren’t also attracted to other women. Meanwhile, my lack of attraction to women, is one of the things my ex used to scream at me about – his favorite way to express his frustration with every sexual desire he had that I didn’t share. For all the times he called me a prude and a child, never did it happen so often. as when I refused to sleep with him and another woman. Eventually I had to concoct a fake story about a FMF encounter, to stop the incessant chants of “How do you know you won’t like it, if you don’t try?!”
It goes to show, that it has nothing to do with what your actual sexuality is – gay, straight or anywhere in between – some people will ALWAYS judge you, but their own sexual identity, and how yours deviates from theirs.
And your encounter with GSL just defends the old adage – don’t feed the trolls.
You sound butthurt and you actually proves my point why bisexuality has a stigma in the L community. Deep inside, you knew that my points actually hit your nerves and that’s why you’re constantly try to be defensive and play a ”victim” card. You thinks that I only be vocal when I’m online? I dare to say those words even I’m in real life because I’ve seen it with my own eyes the effect caused by the fake lesbians can make to real lesbians, so I decided to stop being silent and actually do something.
Keep thinking that I’m a troll though so you can sleep at night since you can’t grasp what I just said into your thick skull.
It’s funny that someone would claim to speak for the Lesbian community, as if it’s somehow separate from all other communities, and exists in its own universe. Hmm, let me see, what does the B in LGBT stand for again? Are the Transexuals also stealing your thunder, or making you look bad to the straights? And what about the Bisexual men – are they also “fake gays,” putting on a show to be part of this hot new bisexual trend?
But that’s not as tragically absurd, as someone claiming all of these ‘fake’ lesbians are hurting the real lesbians, while accusing THEM of playing the victim card. The thick skull here is not with the women daring to admit they are attracted to more than one gender – it’s with someone who would dare to suggest sexuality is binary, while being a member of a sexual orientation who is constantly marginalized because of the bullshit notion of sexuality as binary.
You need to do a little research on human sexuality, and grasp the concept that – sexuality has NEVER been about being either gay or straight. There are literally HUNDREDS of different scales of sexuality, because human sexuality is as complicated as every other part of our neurology. And there is FAR more variances to sexuality than just straight or gay. There are entire cultures built around being pansexual, polysexual and even asexual or androgenous. And you offend every single one of them, by somehow claiming the only person who understands the complexities of human sexuality in our culture, is you. At this exact moment in time, there are thousands – if not tens of thousands – of people studying human sexuality, who know more about the complexities of it than you will ever understand.
Your binary attitudes directly contribute to the idiots who claim homosexuality is curable, a phase or a choice, because you offer the same insult to others than they offer to you – that anyone’s whose sexuality doesn’t match what YOU consider the norm, is somehow inventing a pretend sexuality, to get attention or disrupt society. Perhaps, instead of accusing adult women – who have had to work as hard as you to fully understand and embrace their own sexuality – of being giggling college coeds, making out with their roommates so all the boys pant, you should consider the harm you bring to the entire LGBT community, by marginalizing the sexuality of people you don’t know.
”Hmm, let me see, what does the B in LGBT stand for again? Are the Transexuals also stealing your thunder, or making you look bad to the straights? And what about the Bisexual men – are they also “fake gays,” putting on a show to be part of this hot new bisexual trend?”
B is not gay so they should make their own club and stay away from the gay community. You guys can fuck an opposite sex anyways, so why don’t bisexuals just stay with the straight community since that’s the place you guys will ended up. Gay community are not a tourist agency to serve bisexuals aka tourists ya know We don’t have time for that shit. The T is not a sexual orientation but a gender issue, so again it shouldn’t be part of the gay community. People just lump us together because straight people can be idiot and ignorant.
”You need to do a little research on human sexuality, and grasp the concept that – sexuality has NEVER been about being either gay or straight. There are literally HUNDREDS of different scales of sexuality, because human sexuality is as complicated as every other part of our neurology. And there is FAR more variances to sexuality than just straight or gay. There are entire cultures built around being pansexual, polysexual and even asexual or androgenous.”
Sexuality are mostly about being black and white. Without black and white, the grey color doesn’t exist. ”Sexuality is fluid” is a PC term of saying that sexual orientation can change and that’s why I said many homophobes in the gay community are mostly bisexual because that’s what they believe. Complex or not, human can find a way to learn and find out things. We can study the universe and that’s not impossible to know things for sure no matter how complex the issue we wanted to solve. Exclusively homosexual and heterosexual people exist. Deal with it.
The only legit sexual orientations has 4 which is homosexual, heterosexual, bisexuality and asexuality. Other than that, it just a made up word from a special snowflakes people.
Pansexual is a special snowflake label for bisexuality because bisexual are not edgy enough nowadays. Polysexual is not a legit sexual orientation and it’s actually a sexual behavior. Andogenoues is not a sexual orientation but describe a gender expression. You sound ignorant yourself about a human sexuality because you can’t even make a different between a sexual orientation, gender expression, and sexual behavior. Why don’t you take your own advice and learn more about human sexuality rather than take/believe in the made up label from special snowflakes people in the internet seriously?
”you should consider the harm you bring to the entire LGBT community, by marginalizing the sexuality of people you don’t know.”
People like me bring harm to fake people because I remove the mask from them and show people how ugly their intention and face are. The only marginalized sexual orientation are homosexuals which systematic oppression has been build to erase our history and existence. Other letters besides the L and G in the LGbtblablabla community that was included are like a parasite because other letters don’t face any systematic oppression like the L and G people have to face. They can shove their typical ”victim” card in the toilet for all I care since I don’t take their ”oppression” seriously which is nonexistence, or they can make their own community rather that be a parasite in the gay community. Not to mention, they like to whine all damn time. It’s annoying.
You wanna talk about ugly intentions? “You guys can fuck an opposite sex anyways, so why don’t bisexuals just stay with the straight community since that’s the place you guys will ended up. ” So because people don’t want to fuck who YOU think they should, they shouldn’t be able to be with who they want? And the only thing sexual orientation is about, is who you intend to fuck? Again, you sound like the homophobes – in particular the ones obsessed with anal sex in Stephen Fry’s Out There. Sexual orientation is about who you are romantically and sexually attracted to – it’s not about who you can bring yourself to fuck.
Transgender and bisexual people aren’t the victims of systemic or institutionalized oppression? Are you HIGH? Do you think they get a pass in Russia or Uganda, because they’re not “real sexual deviants?” You want to tell Lucy Meadows, Amber Maxwell, Essay Anne Vanderbilt, or Mindy Fabian that you don’t take their non-existent oppression seriously? I’m afraid you can’t – they took their own lives, because they couldn’t face a world that treated them as unkindly as you would. More than 40% of transgender and bisexual people attempt suicide, often because they can’t handle the degradation and abuse of a society that doesn’t understand why they can’t just be ‘normal’ – sound familiar? And their suicide rates are quite a bit higher than those of your so-called ‘pure’ gays – in several studies bisexuals have the highest suicide rate of any other sexually identified group – because they don’t always have the same community support (particularly in urban areas) that homosexuals have. But please do go on, telling the parents, children, lovers and friends of those who have died or tried to, how they’re all just parasites in your pure community, who don’t know real oppression – while you actively try and oppress them. I’m sure they’d love to hear about it.
Why don’t you in particular go read Bill Clayton’s story, and imagine for a moment how his mother would feel about the hateful things you say… http://www.youth-guard.org/gabi/Bills_Story.html
And since you seem to be oblivious to what oppression actually looks like… “In sociology, the tools of oppression include a progression of denigration, dehumanization, and demonization; which often generate scapegoating, which is used to justify aggression against targeted groups and individuals.” So again, please go on calling others snowflakes, who are also to be blamed for the oppression of YOUR people, because their fake sexuality deflects from the purity of yours. No one does a better job of painting you the intolerant and hateful troll, than you do.
Me, I’m done feeding the troll.
Hooray Katherine xxxx
”So because people don’t want to fuck who YOU think they should, they shouldn’t be able to be with who they want? And the only thing sexual orientation is about, is who you intend to fuck?”
Of course in order to fuck someone, you’d need to have a desire back in your mind to fuck that person whether it’s a sexual or emotional connection. Are you pretending to be dumb or you’re actually dumb to understand?
”Transgender and bisexual people aren’t the victims of systemic or institutionalized oppression? Are you HIGH? Do you think they get a pass in Russia or Uganda, because they’re not “real sexual deviants?”
I’m not high and I’m just telling the truth. Transgender people and bisexuals can get prejudice because you guys were link to us homosexuals. Tell me the law that specifically target bisexuality and transgender systematically globally. I dare you. Those ”oppression” that bisexuals and transgender face are because of homophobia. Other than that, they just can face a prejudice but not an oppression.
”More than 40% of transgender and bisexual people attempt suicide, often because they can’t handle the degradation and abuse of a society that doesn’t understand why they can’t just be ‘normal’ – sound familiar? And their suicide rates are quite a bit higher than those of your so-called ‘pure’ gays – in several studies bisexuals have the highest suicide rate of any other sexually identified group – because they don’t always have the same community support (particularly in urban areas) that homosexuals have. But please do go on, telling the parents, children, lovers and friends of those who have died or tried to, how they’re all just parasites in your pure community, who don’t know real oppression – while you actively try and oppress them. I’m sure they’d love to hear about it.”
Again, all of this ”oppression” are because of homophobia and not ”biphobia” or ”transphobia”. Try again.
”“In sociology, the tools of oppression include a progression of denigration, dehumanization, and demonization; which often generate scapegoating, which is used to justify aggression against targeted groups and individuals.” So again, please go on calling others snowflakes, who are also to be blamed for the oppression of YOUR people, because their fake sexuality deflects from the purity of yours. No one does a better job of painting you the intolerant and hateful troll, than you do. ”
So, where’s the systematic oppression that you guys whine about? Tell me the ”religious books” of homosexual that condemn bisexuals and transgender people, or law that made by homosexual people to ”oppress” the B and T if they’re exist? If you can’t provide that, gay people have the right to control our own community without any parasites involve. No one does a better job of painting you the parasite and pea brain, than you do.
Me, I’m done feeding the parasite.
Oh, I’m sorry for the confusion. I thought you were an adult capable of doing your own research, and FINDING OUT FOR YOURSELF if there are laws and religious texts oppressing bisexuality and transgender people, or cases of homosexuals oppressing transgender people. But since you are apparently incapable of doing said research, allow me to provide you with a few pieces of reading material…
Click to access Transgender_Oppression_Triangles-2011.pdf
And since you can’t also read something so far away as the top of this comments page – I’m not bisexual. I happen to have been born heterosexual. But unlike you, I don’t treat someone whose sexuality differs from mine, like a non-human.
And with that Gold Star Lesbian, you have had more than your say on this blog. I will no longer be agreeing any of your posts, you have had more than your share of air time. Please go troll someone else’s blog with your nasty, inhumane, extremist views
Miss Twenty-Nine xxx
ALL DEBATE ON THIS BLOG POST IS NOW CLOSED – 30 DATES IS A BLOG ABOUT DATING & HAVING FUN, NOT ABOUT GOLD STAR LESBIANS!
THANK YOU ALL WHO HAVE COMMENTED.